Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Chaddicus22, Mar 1, 2014.
a lot of people are saying Carbine is not going to be able to keep up the p2p method.
When people say this, I point to EVE. All WildStar will have to do is keep enough people by holding a niche. Now the question is... will it? If WildStar keeps enough people playing that are willing to pay the sub and Carbine/NCSOFT don't extend their budget vs it's player pool, then yes they can stay pay to play. If the PLAY to pay option works well this will also keep the player population alive.
Eve is not a good example as it had essentially no budget and was able to hold on and grow through a variety of different means. Wildstar is in a whole other boat. The sheer numbers of players right out the gate and the demand for content means it will have stupidly higher overhead, not to mention the $100m budget it needs to cover.
@op, its too early to tell. As it stands currently, doubtful. Most of it hinges on how successful Credd turns out to be for them. Even then considering that they have come out as averse to microtransactions when every other company that has a Credd like system utilizes them points to no. We can go into the debate if you really want, but all you need to do is search these boards as this discussion has been held time and time again. All it will end up as a bunch of people against "f2p/microtrans/your mom" will come in here mobbing with their forum speak and anecdotal impressions and I will respond with multiple links from several different developers saying they are wrong.
The biggest obstacle I see right now is optimization. If you watched the stream today you saw fps issues. If they're having those problems under the most ideal conditions possible, it doesn't bode well for the mass horde of potential players. The 'average gamer' doesn't have a very powerful pc. That was one of WoW's greatest strengths: you could play it on a toaster.
If they can get that under control, I think the sky's the limit. There seems to be a vast amount of content at launch. From raids to dungeons to adventures...plenty of instanced pve. Battlegrounds and warplots. Lots for the pvpers. Crafting, housing and hobbies to occupy peoples' time. If there's just 'things to do' and ways in which to progress your character, then people have reason to log on and I still maintain that $15/month is an absurdly cheap price for a hobby.
So it's really up to Carbine to maintain the game well, offer additional content, polish, polish, polish, have good customer and tech support, and just build upon the initial release...then the sub is justified and people will continue to pay. If, like so many other recent mmos, it's just a stagnant mess that never defines a true path and purpose, then people will leave and it'll go f2p with a horrendous cash shop and just be another victim of devs' inability to understand what makes a quality mmo. But personally, I'm not getting that impression. These guys seem to know what they're doing. And I think they might be sitting on a monster.
I sure hope it stays P2P. I have never played a free game that I actually enjoyed or stayed with for any period of time. I did play LoL for a while, but I still ended up spending as much on that as a normal sub anyway with their skins and whatnot. I see a lot of posts out there all the time about people not wanting to pay for a game. I feel that you can't put a good price on entertainment. You can barely go to the movies nowadays for under 15 bucks, so I really don't get the complaints about spending 15 bucks for an entire month's worth of entertainment.
Also, F2P games tend to turn into pay to win. Paying real money for AMPs or skill upgrades? No thanks.
And it begins.
I'm willing to bet that it goes some f2p variation (b2p freemium) at some point. And it would do so much better with it from a business perspective.
To address the elephant in the room subs/micro Neither is better but they need embrace their model.
Subs: Need to provide content and value for money each month and not just work on a Low overhead maximize profit model that exists in most games today. And You get everything in the game for that subscription fee with no optional microtrans.
microtrans: need to provide a <REDACTED> ton of content in the store, not just 10 outfits at $20 that item mall needs to be chock full of items (which are not p2w), also Allow f2p characters to be first class citizens by being able to buy the appropriate modules and features. Not just "You cant do this unless you subscribe".
I think a reasonable monetization implementation would be to allow amp resets for ~$5.
What you describe does happen in some games but there are good alternatives.
However the days of just paying a sub are pretty much over as companies will double dip with subs+microtrans.
As my answer I'll post just a few times this topic has been brought up before.
There are more...
If there are enough subscribers, no need. If there are not enough, then it may go F2P.
So that is not something we can answer at this point in time. If you asked the same of The Old Republic before launch, they would have said "We'll never go F2P".
So it's not something that is in any plans, it just happens if a change is required in the business model. So unless you can see the future, we can't tell at this time.
The "We will never go f2p" is entirely marketing speak. When they sat down and talked about monetization they discussed other business models and such. They would have to. Anything else would be incredibly negligent. The video in my sig is fantastic for that reason alone. Its a snippet from this years Challenge, here is last years and this years:
That 2nd challenge was pretty good (except the lady that was not well prepared). And they do not even sound too evil... I mean, businesses are here to make money, Carbine/NCSoft is no exception. They will milk us out of our hard earned cash as best they can. I'm sure they discussed business models, and subscription+credd was the one they opted for in the end. I'm sure this can change if they find out a better way to make money, or the factors change (population drop, etc).
Now, just because a business wants to get our money, does not mean they are evil, or will give is a bad game. They know that providing a good, engaging game can get them lots of money on the long run. So they are investing in a good game (from what I've seen so far). So that "evil" game design sounds like "regular" game design to me...
We'll just see.
absonegatively partially maybe
from the looks of things, this game might last longer on the sub based model longer than elder scrolls online lol. but really it all comes down to Wild Star actually being good enough for it. if its a huge success and it has the capability to keep a strong base, it could last as a p2p. until i try the beta i cant really give an answer to that question posed. if it gives me the same feeling ESO did which was zero <REDACTED>s given and had my interest lost within the hour, id say this game is f2p material as well.
I think f2p is likely, but may not necessarily come about as a means to cope with an inadequate game.
I've just heard too many times that people won't pay a sub for a game. It leaves me a bit skeptical that it'll work.
Except, I don't believe that's what most companies want these days.
They want a large and quick return on investment because lets face it there is more stable long term growth investments.
They can always add Pandas. That is proven to keep subs
A company developing an mmo has to be in it for the long haul. There are far easier ways in which to make a quick buck. But if they hit it out of the park with an mmo, the potential is so much higher.
What other video game type can charge for a box, + sub + microtransations straight out the gate? Then when the hype dies down switch to a full micro transaction model?
They make a truckload up front then everything else is gravy. they dont need to wait years to get a profit like they used to because hype drives the whole thing now.
It beats making 1 "standard" game every time.
Do you think the development costs between an mmo and some 'standard' game are at all comparable? Ask BioWare how it worked out. Ask Mythic. Ask most of the companies who have delved into this genre.
Look, I'm not here to justify any company's decision to make any type of game. Or their expectations in doing so. This thread is about WildStar and will it go f2p. The answer...I don't have the slightest damn clue. None of us really do. From a personal point of view, I'm not even sold on buying the game. Honestly, right now the mmo I'm most looking forward to is EQ Next....most likely because next to nothing is known about the game and the unknown allows us to dream for perfection. And that game won't have a sub, and more and more of my friends and family keep saying they'll stay away from sub mmos. So slowly I'm having to admit (quite painfully) that this model may on its way out.