Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Crescent, May 28, 2013.
you sir are wrong, that is all
Me and Carbine in a nutshell
Well... I see your concerns. I was way too hyped up for Guild Wars 2, and I disappointed in the game and in the devs too. I'm trying to be different this time, but I've never seen so much transparency and love towards the community from a game developer company, so it's kinda hard to not get excited. I really think they actually listen to us and they not just saying what we want to hear. That's why I'm willing to trust them.
At the very least, give them a chance and don't rule out WildStar yet.
You and me both..
Please elaborate. Did Neverwinter not do terrible because its economy crashed? Was the game not drastically unpolished? Did Guild Wars 2 try so desperately to be different that it lacked any real cohesion in endgame? Didn't EVE Online have a massive player protest in Jita because of the proposed cash shop options and blatant developer greed?
What you need to understand is that Carbine Studios is first and foremost a business. Legitimately...well, outside of being Aliens: Colonial Marines bad...they can do and say anything as long as it means a better bottom line for revenue.
The last thing I want to do is get into a flame war, but look at the market before you blatantly declare someone's cautious neutrality wrong. "Oh, the devs say it's going to do great things...so that must mean it will." Conversely, you may say that i'm incorrect just because I say that it may fail as a product in the meantime.
Let me get an additional point across - these games i'm mentioning may not be dead per se, but they've lost my dollar. My opinions are what matter to me. Several people have responded to this thread in kind.
However, my occupation doesn't depend on how well I spin a product. I merely write.
Refute what I am saying here, and I have but one reposte.
>Mfw it actually survives and i've missed 6 months of grind time waiting to see if it did
>Yfw it fails and everyone jumps ship after two months.
Flip that coin if you want, but i'm not a gambling man. I'd rather get nothing...rather than spend x months leveling up a character and see it crash and burn.
I'm not necessarily in favor of the hype train, but I'm not sure those are good examples.
Neverwinter: Not to be cruel, but did it actually have much hype? I've been under the impression that it had its fans, but that its soft launch was relatively low key and had't stirred up that much buzz until the problems started. I also must say that it doesn't particularly surprise me that the game has struggled at launch. Star Trek Online had a notoriously poor launch, and some of the criticisms were the same.Guild Wars 2: I think they overestimated the extent to people would like a game with no real endgame and no real goals at max level, but they did sell those features honestly. I'd note that WildStar seems to be a game on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to endgame, however, which is one of the reasons I think it may be more successful than its predecessors.EVE Online: EVE is a success story. Sure, its players aren't always happy with the way the game is run, but it's a 10-year-old game that's still popular with a reasonable number of players and that's still able to charge a subscription. EVE's niche success is something that I think more games should strive for, rather than using WoW to set their expectations.
I don't think people should get too carried away with WildStar and start proclaiming it the WoW Killer or the game they'll play for a dozen years. That's not realistic. But much of what's been released about the game pleases people. I don't think that necessarily means they're rabid fans who won't speak up if WildStar announces some particularly vile feature.
For the devs, this is their job, their occupation, their life. For me, it's something I do when I get home and want to have fun.
For the devs, this is the investment of hundreds of thousands of man-hours across several years. For me, it's something I talk about in off-hours on a fan forum.
I want this game to be good, but the devs NEED it to be good, and desperately so. Not WoW-killer good, because that's an impossible goal, but good enough to make enough profit to keep the bean-counters from breaking it as badly as SWTOR.
They're intelligent men and women and they have to know that. They have multiple examples of how not to do things, and plenty of experience in what works. They have an excited fanbase and a market which is wide open for something, anything, new and exciting.
Why am I looking forward to WildStar? Because I believe in the power of enlightened self-interest. The only way Carbine can maintain control of their IP and to pay the grocery bill is to keep us happy. They don't need to be altruistic saints; they just need to be Not Stupid to recognize all the above as blatant, obvious, deadly truth.
They have everything they need to succeed. It's up to them to follow through. Lacking any evidence to the contrary, I choose to believe they will. I might be wrong; I thought SWTOR had more legs than it did. I enjoyed the story, though, and I figure I got my money's worth out of it. If WS disappoints, I'll play it while it's fun and stop when it's not.
Much like STO I cringed when I realized it was Cryptic with the IP. I wish they'd just stop making games.
I don't think Wildstar will be a WoW Killer. I think it can compete in the same space as long as people keep their expectations realistic. I'd like to see Carbine pull off everything they've promised will be in at launch.
If they do that, and keep up that high quality of polish that I've seen in these videos, they'll do fine. They'll certainly hook me in, anyway.
Pretty much exact same situation here, been looking for a good MMO to hold my attention for years now and if WS isn't what I really hope it will be, I'm probably going to call it quits, at least for awhile.
I have been skeptical about MMOs, too, and am trying to be realistic, but the devs are just singin' the right tune that I want to hear. Meaningful player housing? It's about damn time.
First of all, the devs aren't a bunch of nobodies. There's a lot of serious proven talent there. . Lots of ex-WoW devs from that have benefited from learning what worked and what didn't with the game. Devs from other MMOs. And so on. They're very communicative, and the game is not yet even released. They're actively soliciting and gathering opinions and perspectives over what gamers want in a game. That's VERY encouraging.
Second, I like the world and graphics already. I LIKE the "cartoony" graphics. I played WoW for many years, so it just grew on me. I like the space-theme, I like the obvious Firefly influence, I like some of the tongue-in-cheek humor.
Their "announced" release date is "when it's ready." That's encouraging because releasing too early, under pressure, doomed some MMOs from the start. I played Age of Conan at launch and I still cry myself to sleep every night because of it.
Most of all, the few videos released, such as TotalBiscuit's short playthrough video, got me excited the most. The animation is very fluid and well-done. The world seems pretty active and has taken the right cues from WoW including other MMOs. The gameplay at least looks fun.
I´m really looking forward to 40 man raids. And the Devs are experienced, thats good to.
Some other aspects, like warplots and paths, are cool too, but they would never be the reason for me to play W*
Cuz I'm desperate for a good MMO and it looks like I can put my hope in this one. Besides, I prefer to get hyped and let down than nothing at all
I'm semi-hyped for this game because I agree with a lot of ideas that are being included in it. Haven't really been looking forward to an MMO like this since WAR (another game with amazing ideas that ended up unpolished).
You have every right to be cautious and concerned Crescent. You have your opinion and I respect that. You are right that your opinions should matter to you and you should be able to take your money where you feel you will get the best bang for it. I am very hyped about Wildstar but I am also remaining optimistically cautious because of some of the recent releases. In the end we are all gamers and just want to have fun.
GW2 never grabbed me. I didn't play GW either for the same reason. That's just me though. My fiancee and I still play NW just because we enjoy it. Of course the recent issues doesn't help but we went into it just because we both played NWN1 and had a blast and wanted to try the foundry. I know others are disappointed and they have the right if they aren't happy. You should go where the game is what you want it to be and pay for. We all should be able to. And to all of us that may be different games.
There are a few things that stand out to me to give these guys the benefit of the doubt. One was when I was watching and listening to gamebreaker interview Jeremy Gaffney. He mentioned how all the execs went to gamescon and everyone came in on a weekend to put the housing dungeons into the game because they thought it would be cool but the execs said it would take too much dev time. (If I remember correctly) Secondly Jeremy helped start Turbine those many years ago. So he has been in the business for a while. A lot of the devs have been on various games that are/were popular and may still be around so they have the experience. And lastly was this quote from Gaffney on Zam:
"It felt like I was seeing a glimpse of another side of Gaffney; not just the charismatic raconteur who shares insight with a rare bluntness, but the man toiling away at the helm of a huge triple-A MMO to keep the SS WildStar on course.
“There’s a question we all face in our personal lives, which is ‘when do you figure out you’re not going to be president’. Is it 20 when those party pictures go up on the internet, and you go ‘well, I’m not going to be president now’, or is it 30 when you’re like ‘well, I guess I went into journalism or game development, I guess I’m not going to tool that into a political career.”
“When you’re in your game, you always hit that stage where you’re like ‘man, we’re not going to be the best game on the planet’. We’ve not hit that stage yet, and I don’t guarantee that we’ll hit it. But I’ll tell you that the error bar still contains it for us, where we’re all stoked about it, because this is the best game most, if not all of us have ever made in our lives.”"
Very interesting article. Sorry I know I may have rambled on.
This is a good thread, that needed to be made.
I am hopeful for Wildstar, simply because the devs seem genuinely interested in communicating with their potential customers. Add to it, that the MMO genre is under a lot of fatigue, and we are beginning to see the first rays of light poking out from behind the shadow of World of Warcraft. This all adds up to a situation where there is room for the "next big MMO" to come onto the scene.
Ultimately, I'm hopeful for Wildstar because they seem to be trying to capture that which made Vanilla WoW so fun. "Features of convenience" are not a good thing for an MMO, and games like TOR, GW2, etc have proven this time and time again (even WoW's begin into a slow decline is blamed on the addition of "casual" friendly features). If they are willing to take the lessons of their competitors to heart, really try to figure out what made WoW (and EQ1 before it) so popular, and finally, be willing to take some big risks, we could have a nice world to play in.
Whatever you do, don't look too hard at this post.
There will never be pre-order beta access.
...dang made myself feel bad too.
That's very much my play style, I either take the hits or make sure someone else can.
This is probably why I didn't find GW2 to be the MMO for me, don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful game and I can see why there are lots of people who like it very much. It just wasn't the game for me.
I 100% agree with you about being let down with SWTOR, this has caused me to temper my excitement somewhat. I beta-tested that game for nearly a year (a few waves of testing) and kept thinking that Bioware was going to somehow magically turn testers feedback about faction imbalance, space combat, and the very linear nature of leveling into some amazing finished product. I'm keeping that experience at the forefront of my mind while I follow this games development.
Several things give me hope.
1. When the Carbine devs communicate it doesn't sound like a script that was hammered out by a marketing department and a law firm. The videos, the interviews, and even the posts on this site seem more relaxed and genuine. Either they are very confident about their product or they have Don Draper whispering into their ears constantly.
2. The Great One once said “A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be." I think development around matching content to the type of activities players naturally invest time in, Paths, is pretty groundbreaking. People have a fairly concrete idea about what kind of role they want to play within the holy trinity, but what about outside of grouping? What do they DO? I find that pretty exciting. Content for what players are going to naturally gravitate towards.
3. I can't decide what faction or race to pick. They've somehow managed to make the style and feel of both factions and almost all of the races very appealing. I sincerely pity anyone who has even minor issues with Altoholicism. Plus, you can pick different roles for the same class on different factions, you can then choose a different Path for your characters. Between that and the dynamic leveling content it's appears to be a richly varied experience when leveling.
Even if this game doesn't 100% meet my expectations or any hype that is churned out between now and launch, I think Carbine has come up with enough of a hook by what will be offered to keep me playing for quite some time.
maybe this is a nitpicky question, but why do you think this thread needed to be made?
I also dont see the "hype" that the op is talking about, imo this is the most active site for W* and its pretty low key compared to other games forums. I also haven't seen anyone jumping up and down yelling that this will be a WoW killer...its odd that people post as if "someone somewhere" is yelling that, who? where?
I just see a bunch of MMO fans chatting with each other while waiting for a cool looking game to come out.
This is also the only MMO I've ever seen to not talk a lot or show off stuff that isn't full developed in the game. Instead of saying what will be in the game and not delivering, they get it working well and show off videos and explain everything about it they can.
Quite simply Wildstar looks interesting so I have been following it. When it comes out I will play it. Eventually I will stop playing it. Whether that time amounts to a single afternoon or many years, if that time spent was enjoyable was that still wasted time?